Questioning of General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker

Senate Armed Services Committee

April 8, 2008

SENATOR LEVIN:

Senator Graham?

SENATOR GRAHAM:

Thank you, both of you, well done. You know, according to some, we should fire you. It sounds like, that everything is just -- really nothing good has happened in the last year and this is a hopeless endeavor.

Well, I beg to differ. If I could promote you to five stars, I would. And if I could -- I don't know where to send you. You've been to every bad place there is to go, so I'd send you to a good place, Ambassador Crocker.

I cannot tell you how proud I am of both of you.

And let's start this with kind of a 30,000-foot assessment.

The surge, General Petraeus, was a corrective action -- is that fair to say?

GENERAL PETRAEUS:

That's correct, Senator.

GRAHAM:

The reason it was a corrective action is between the fall of Baghdad and January of 2007, all of the trend lines were going in the wrong way: economic stagnation, political stagnation, increased proliferation of violence. Therefore, something had to be done, and that something was called a surge.

Now, I would just ask the American people and my colleagues to evaluate fairly from January 2007 to July 2008, and see what's happened: The challenges are real, but there are things that have happened in that period of time that need to be understood as being beneficial to this country, that came at a heavy price. And Al Qaida cannot stand the surge.

If you put a list of people who wanted us to leave, the number one group would be Al Qaida, because you've been kicking them all over Iraq.

Now, the reason they came to Iraq is why, General Petraeus?

PETRAEUS:

That Al Qaida came to Iraq , sir?

GRAHAM:

Yes.

PETRAEUS:

To establish a base in the heart of the Arab world, in the heart of the Mideast.

GRAHAM:

Are they closer to their goal after the surge, or further away?

PETRAEUS:

Further away, Senator.

GRAHAM:

OK. What's the -- if you had to pick one thing to tell the American people that was the biggest success of the surge, what would it be?

PETRAEUS:

Probably Anbar province and/or just the general progress against Al Qaida.

GRAHAM:

Would it be the fact that Muslims tasted Al Qaida life in Iraq and Iraqi Muslims joined with us to fight Al Qaida?

PETRAEUS:

I think the shift in Sunni Arabs against Al Qaida has been very, very significant. The rejection of the indiscriminate violence, the extremist ideology and even, really, the oppressive practices associated with Al Qaida is, again, a very, very significant change.

GRAHAM:

Is it fair to say that when Muslims will stand by us and fight against bin Laden, his agents and sympathizers, we're safer?

PETRAEUS:

Absolutely.

GRAHAM:

Ambassador Crocker, what is Iran up to in Iraq?

CROCKER:

Senator, I described what I believe to be an effort at Lebanizatian through the backing of different militia groups.

GRAHAM:

OK. Let's stop there. Lebanon kicked Syria out a few years ago, and they tried to create a democracy, some form of democracy. Hezbollah, backed by Iran , had a say in that endeavor. Is that correct?

CROCKER:

That's correct, sir.

GRAHAM:

And they launched an attack from Lebanon against Israel at the time the United Nations was about to sanction Iran for their nuclear endeavors.

Is that correct?

CROCKER:

I believe so, sir.

GRAHAM:

So is it fair to say that, from an Iranian point of view, one of their biggest nightmares would be a functioning democracy in Lebanon, a functioning representative government in Iraq on their borders?

CROCKER:

Certainly, their behavior would indicate that that may be the case. You make an important point because we look at Iraq as a nation in its own terms. The region looks at it a little bit differently.

Iran and Syria have been cooperating over Lebanon since the early 1980s. Over a quarter of a century they have worked together against the Lebanese and against our interests. They're using that same partnership in Iraq, in my view, although the weights are reversed With Iran having the greater weight and Syria the lesser. But they are working in tandem together against us and against a stable Iraqi state.

GRAHAM:

If I can walk through what these laws mean to me, and this is just my opinion: Provincial elections in October are important to me because it means that the Sunnis understand that participating in representative government seems to be in their interest; therefore, they're going to vote in October of 2008 and they boycotted in 2005.

Is that correct?

CROCKER:

That's one of the reasons they're important, yes.

GRAHAM:

OK. So the Sunnis are going to come in -- by the millions, we anticipate to send representatives to Baghdad or to the provinces rather than sending bombs, is that correct?

CROCKER:

That is what I would expect, yes.

GRAHAM:

OK. Now the reason the surge has been successful to me, General Petraeus, is that the Anbar province has been liberated from Al Qaida, but we've had a reduction in sectarian violence.

Is that true?

PETRAEUS:

That is true.

GRAHAM:

OK. Now, this breathing space that we've been urging to have happened to have better security, from my opinion, has produced economic results not known before January, 2007. Is that correct? The economy is improving?

PETRAEUS:

That is correct.

GRAHAM:

The Iraqis will be paying more over time to bear the burden of fighting for their freedom?

PETRAEUS:

That's correct.

GRAHAM:

They will be fighting more to bear the burden of their freedom. Is that correct?

PETRAEUS:

Correct.

GRAHAM:

Is there any way Iraq could be a failed state and not affect our national security?

PETRAEUS:

No, sir.

GRAHAM:

What would happen if the policy of the United States began January, 2007 to remove a brigade a month in Baghdad -- I mean, of Iraq ? What would be the military consequences to such an endeavor, in your opinion, if we announced, as a nation, we're going to withdraw a brigade out of Iraq every month?

PETRAEUS:

Sir, it clearly would depend on the conditions at that time. If the conditions were good and quite good, then that might be doable.

GRAHAM:

At this point in time, does that seem to be a responsible position to take, given what you know about Iraq , to make that announcement now?

PETRAEUS:

Well, Senator, again, I have advocated conditions-based reductions, not a timetable. War is not a linear phenomenon; it's a calculus, not arithmetic. And that is why, again, I have recommended conditions-based reductions following the completion of the surge forces drawdown.

LEVIN:

Senator Graham, thank you.

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